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Author Topic: Public VFAT 2008 Debriefing  (Read 15311 times)
Frazer
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2009, 10:09:27 pm »

That is a very interesting idea, though most of the teams will want to fly in the european evening.

To loose some of the time pressure, it is indeed good to have more teams flying on the day and to work with time/mod blocks as much as possible.
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Lawndart
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2009, 10:36:54 pm »

Also, keep in mind for the continuous show to work (one team landing, the next spooling up) everyone (part of the same mod) needs to fly at the same location (mission). The downside to doing this is that you'll have one team (incl. support staff, cameraman etc.) joining the server while another team is still performing their show vs. setting up on a freshly restarted server with their settings. Connectivity issues could happen. There's a greater chance someone will hit a "snag" this way than having everyone join on a rebooted server, but if things run smooth it is faster. Pro's and con's - always gotta weigh them.

Let's look at what was good in 2008, and what was better in the past years and see if we cannot combine the best things, while deciding early on topics such as mods, where to fly, dates and cameramen! Then look at what else can be changed and improved for 2009...

I think the most important thing (already brought up by Frazer) is that EVERYONE participating needs to block off the entire weekend on their schedules! If you wanna play, you're gonna have to pay! Wink (Pay the price of telling your wife, work and pets (?) etc. that you will be "locked in the mancave" from Friday evening, but will "return to planet Earth" Monday morning). Grin Everyone needs to be that flexible!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:46:38 pm by Lawndart » Logged

Sawamura
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2009, 11:14:33 pm »

I think the most important thing (already brought up by Frazer) is that EVERYONE participating needs to block off the entire weekend on their schedules! If you wanna play, you're gonna have to pay! Wink (Pay the price of telling your wife, work and pets (?) etc. that you will be "locked in the mancave" from Friday evening, but will "return to planet Earth" Monday morning). Grin Everyone needs to be that flexible!

I agree in this point. For some people, its not easy to do it. But well.. Like Lawndart said, thats what we have to sacrifice.

A morning show, an afternoon show and an evening show for example. Could be set like a block consists of 4 hours of show, then a 1-2 hours break, followed by the next block. within the blocks may be 1-2 15-30 minutes gaps to buffer some delay or a server/mod switch.

That may be interesting, espeacilly for my friends from japan.  Roll Eyes
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Frazer
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2009, 12:16:33 am »

Let's look at what was good in 2008, and what was better in the past years and see if we cannot combine the best things, while deciding early on topics such as mods, where to fly, dates and cameramen! Then look at what else can be changed and improved for 2009...

This is exactly what I'm trying to do  Wink

btw, since I still have no internet at my own house, I will be back on this topic next weekend....
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Cpt Stark
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2009, 10:02:28 am »


Hello all

So, first,

for my first participation at VFAT, all were "perfect" except for my reheasal ("crashs" cause not same server settings than on my trainings  Embarrassed  Grin)

So, for the VFAT2009, here is my "opinion/brainstorming" about VFAT mod

- 1 entiere mod par day : not possible and will cause problem for cameraman (need only one cameraman for all teams ...)
  => multiple mods par day should be better
     1 mod for max 2hours of "continuous" show, then 1/2 hour of break for changing mod, cameraman, go WC, smoke a cigaret etc  Grin

- 1 team just landing, the other start to taxiing or take off, i think it will cause differents problems
  - lags cause aircrafts on parking during show
  - lags cause other players joining server during show
  - some teams have music during parking preparation (close canopy, engine start etc)
  - non exhaustive list ...
  => I think it should be better than team joined server only when previous team had just quit the server (will make a really little break)
       (or when other team had landed and is taxiing for reduced break)

Take care too for different server settings needed
some teams don't want unlimited fuel and/or invicible setting ...

that's all

have a nice day Smiley
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Lawndart
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2009, 09:26:43 pm »

btw, since I still have no internet at my own house, I will be back on this topic next weekend....

Aw, you must just be DYING!!! That's like 21-century torture! Grin


I agree with most of Cpt Stark's reasons for not having two teams occupy the server at the same time. Many team's will want to "own the airspace and airport" for their entire show until they park.

I think the best way to tackle any unnecessary delays is to assign someone the role of event coordinator during each day. This has been accomplished mostly by Manu and Frazer in year's past, but both of them are extremely busy flying, dealing with technical issues, schedules and arranging streaming at the same time. Having one person, who's only (!) role is to make sure the next team is ready to fly (begin the streaming on time), while the previous one is still in the air - and if any problems occur - coordinate with the VFAT Staff so we avoid cancellations or delays. This person's role would be to make sure the next display is ready to go as soon as the previous finishes (without having them join the server yet), by being in contact with the team/solo's TeamSpeak/Ventrilo and make sure they are all ready, have everything loaded and are standing by for the stream/server to "go live". This also means that each team/solo needs to be ready to fly (show up) approx one hour before their time slot, so the coordinator can talk to them - but also, if needed start earlier if the previous display cancels or needs to be rescheduled. This way we don't lose any time, everyone has a responsibility to show up on time and have everything ready, while one person has the job of coordinating all of it with the "technical crew" (to setup the server and stream). Preferably, the event coordinator would be someone who's not swamped in any other staff duties... Wink
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Lean
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2009, 06:33:29 am »

For me this was great, everithing clear, if you are in your time to fly you fly and everithing ok,

About the "flexibility" of the pilots, ok one thing is your wife´s birdthday, other diferent is don´t go to work, for some pilots this is imposible (for other is the wife XD ), but one or two months before you can say when you are not able to fly, so problem solved. VFAT staff give you a time when you can fly.

The VFAT mod is a good idea but is to much work and we are too many teams, and if we use a VFATmod, you can´t create your privated mission of your team. Like the Superstars set the helicopter around the base, or the VBA whit the bridge and Alcatraz and others teams.
and the server problems before mentioned.

About the time from demo to demo, like this year was nice, one standart team (6-5 pilots) fly 1 hour, a break of 15-20 min is ok, for reduce this time you need two cameramans alternated, so when one team fly, and the other cameraman is streaming, you can change the mods for the next team.
Like you guys said beafore, you need time to eat, bathroom, beer or cofee, etc.

howeber, VFAT kick ass!

Greets guys!

Lean
 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 06:35:20 am by Lean » Logged

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Lawndart
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2009, 07:19:46 am »

Re: VFAT mod making; As they say: "Back to basics"... The simple plan is usually good (and wins most hockey, soccer games too)! Wink Cheesy
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kerdougan
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2009, 01:58:57 pm »

Hi everyone!

I'm not specialised in mods but I don't think a VFAT mod would be possible to do. With mixed up files, incompatibilities and unexpected results, it would be a mess to do. During the 2008 edition Manu, Frazer, Laud and I were implied in all the stuff you're talking about. From my sight the only real problem was the encoder which is really not reliable. It created huge delays because of malfunctions.

The teams were present on time, the server was quickly set and we nearly had one LO installation per team. But I don't really see the point in having only one server for the VFAT, or even any. Each team already has her own hoster with her mod working on and the proper settings. All a cameraman would need is the install the requiered mod on a LO installation during the rehearsal.

During the VFAT he films a team, then pauses the streaming, switches to the next server and the proper LO installation and let's roll!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 03:18:30 pm by kerdougan » Logged

Frazer
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2009, 02:28:19 am »

Hi everyone!

I'm not specialised in mods but I don't think a VFAT mod would be possible to do. With mixed up files, incompatibilities and unexpected results, it would be a mess to do. During the 2008 edition Manu, Frazer, Laud and I were implied in all the stuff you're talking about. From my sight the only real problem was the encoder which is really not reliable. It created huge delays because of malfunctions.

The teams were present on time, the server was quickly set and we nearly had one LO installation per team. But I don't really see the point in having only one server for the VFAT, or even any. Each team early has her own hoster with her mod working on and the proper settings. All a cameraman would need is the install the requiered mod on a LO installation during the rehearsal.

During the VFAT he films a team, them pauses the streaming, switches to the next server and the proper LO installation and let's roll!

As you say, the coördination was fine this year. Most of the teams were on time for their briefings and the server was ready in no time aswell.
The only real problem was the encoder. So, I say, Only! if the encoder becomes that reliable that we can be "ON AIR" within 3 or 5 minutes without too many complications, we can forget about making VFAT mods. Otherwise, it would be best to have combined mods as much as possible to avoid restarting the encoder.
The only person who can really answer this question, and so decide if mods will be required yes or no, will be Manu.

Note: It is possible to combine quite some mods/skins together, as we could see with the VFAT 2007 mod.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 02:40:15 am by Frazer » Logged

Lawndart
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2009, 08:57:47 am »

So it really depends on who the cameraman is as well! Different cameraman = new encoding = irrelevant if there's a big mod or not (unless the same cameraman is capturing). Right?
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Manu
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2009, 10:30:48 am »

So it really depends on who the cameraman is as well! Different cameraman = new encoding = irrelevant if there's a big mod or not (unless the same cameraman is capturing). Right?

Hi,

it's more or less true.... depending how we acquire the stream. I've mentioned it for the 2008 edition already, but the goal would be this year to capture the stream in a different way than before.

Now I need to focus on different events, but I will have some time this summer to come back to the VFAT organization team to do it in a new way, a way that would avoid any delay at all. At the end what would only matter is the team, ready on time  Wink
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 11:41:29 am by psv_manu » Logged

Lawndart
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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2009, 07:08:42 am »

Good news. As long as the team and its cameraman is ready, there shouldn't be any delays then... Smiley
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