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Author Topic: Some questions about physics...  (Read 6840 times)
FTV.Kerberos
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« on: November 04, 2009, 01:58:46 pm »

Dear colleagues,

I'm not a Lock-on addicted, I use it only for aerobatics (like my teammates), so i'm here to ask you (more expert than me for sure) some questions.

1) The plane
I don't know if there are other aerobatic squadrons that use A-10 physics model for their LOMAC plane, but (unlucky) we do.

Real Frecce Tricolori MB-339 PAN
Takeoff Weight for a display - about 3900 kgs
Static Thrust - 1415 Kg/s

LoMAC A-10
SEVEN TONS heavier
Static Thrust - 4122 Kg/s

Difference of weight/thrust ratio = -34% in the sim.

It's clear that we like to obtain a lower weight in the sim... but how???
We can't use unlimited fuel, because during the show we use both coloured and white smokes like the real squadron. We simulate the white smokes releasing fuel.
Unlimited fuel doesn't work with fuel release... the telelevel fuel gauge drops....... so we must use at least 75% of fuel to perform the entire display without going in bingo fuel. And the total weight goes up...
After about 2 years we are "seasoned" about this big difference between the real plane and the virtual one, but what would I like to know: is there a physics mod for LoMAC planes? Are we able to modify the flight model? Or at least a mod to "deny" the fuel drop when releasing the fuel with "Unlimited Fuel" activated?

*******************

2) Lomcovak
The (real) MB-339 is the only jet able to perform this maneuver. But in Lomac, as you know, the plane "freezes and vibrate"  Grin when reaching the zero speed. Is there a way to change this odd behaviour?

3) Smokes
I saw in some videos that the smoke have a different behaviour than the original one. Is there a mod that increase the duration, or the volume (like volumetric smokes), of the smoke in the air?

*******************

Ok, it's enough for now.
I want to thank you in advance for the replies. We won't change nothing for now, because the VFAT appointment is near, but thanks to your help maybe next time we could have a better plane, or at least closer to the real one.
Thanks again and sorry for my english!!!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 02:06:47 pm by FTV.Kerberos » Logged

Beaker
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 02:31:01 pm »

It's clear that we like to obtain a lower weight in the sim... but how??

I'm pretty sure if there was another reliable method, many others would be using by now. Unfortunately I can't think of any way it can be done, even with LUA scripting. (Although I really don't know much about LUA scripting.) It's too bad we all have to make so many "concessions" in how we perform because of the simulator... hopefully that will be fixed someday soon!  Undecided
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FTV.Kerberos
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 02:59:52 pm »

Thanks Beaker, now I know we are all in the same situation.  Grin
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VF_#1|Diko
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 03:14:06 pm »

It's clear that we like to obtain a lower weight in the sim... but how???
There are some entries in the meinit.xml called "empty weight" and "maximum weight" for each aircraft. I don´t know if this work for you if you change the values there. You find the meinit.xml in the "ME" folder.

3) Smokes
I saw in some videos that the smoke have a different behaviour than the original one. Is there a mod that increase the duration, or the volume (like volumetric smokes), of the smoke in the air?
That´s a mod. I uploaded it here for you because I didn´t found the official dl-link so quick.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 03:16:04 pm by VF_#1|Diko » Logged

Frazer
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 03:18:05 pm »

I think the only way to solve your weight problem is to switch to another flight model (F-15 is most suitable seen the fuel drops I think). With the F-15 you will have more thrust than the MB-339 PAN but you can always correct that with cutting off the curve for your throttle ofcourse.

About the Lomcovak maneuver, this is possible to fly in Lockon but it is very hard to prevent the "freeze". Next to that I think the A-10 is not a suitable aircraft to do this with.
Description of how to fly this maneuver (Su-27 used):
- Start with horizontal speed 700km/h
- Pull up 90 degrees with engine power 100% (no AB).
- And then the tricky part, smoothly initiate the following at the same time:
Left stick + Left Rudder + reduce left engine power to 70% + Push nose forward

This will give you a Locovak look a like maneuver without stalling on top. What you actually do is bringing the aircraft in to a negative (up side down) flat spin while flying up vertically.
This gives you one problem though.....it will not be possible to recover from this maneuver as quickly like the real MB-339 PAN can but still, it the whole maneuver comes close to the real one.

There is a smoke mod out there. I personally do not like it so much, but it is not bad: Download here
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 03:20:39 pm by Frazer » Logged

Frazer
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 03:50:26 pm »

Quickly flew this maneuver so that you can see how it looks like. Once again, the recovery is an issue.

Download here

See the real maneuver here.
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FTV.Kerberos
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 04:55:50 pm »

Wow, thanks guys for the replies and the link.  Smiley

About the Meinit: it only shows custom weights in the payload windows, but the real weight remains the same.

@Frazer: thanks for the test, I tried with the 27 and is better than the A10 in this maneuver. The only "trick" I found with A-10 is starting the rotation, nose down and opposite rudder (like the real one), when I'm coming to zero speed I pull up. Doing this prevents the "freeze" at the top of the maneuver because the plane doesn't stall and from ground the maneuver seems pretty good.
I tested the same maneuver in Il-2 Sturmovik with our private 339 model (still in development)... well, another world... is like the real one.

Thanks again mates, this is a great community and is very nice when aerobatic squadrons help each other.  Wink

Thanks for the smokemod, I'll test it ASAP!!!  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Frazer
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 05:01:15 pm »

Interesting, must try your way. Do you actually reach 0 speed or do you fly out at the minimal airspeed to prevent the freeze?
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FTV.Kerberos
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2009, 08:43:08 pm »

The second one.  Grin
I tried the smokes... very "odd"... I think we'll use the standard smokes, but thanks anyway.
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VH-Lucas
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 08:10:27 pm »

I don't know if it would be good for the rest of the show, but for the lomcevak, maybe the Su-25 could work, as it's advanced flight model prevents it from those stupid freezes.

The problem is the recovery - the Frog is a bit mean when it comes to stalls  Tongue.
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Frazer
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 08:15:45 pm »

Not only when it comes down to stalls, the Su-25 is also the most difficult plane to fly in formation. Still though, the Su-25 flight model also has big advantages (like stability during high speed formations).
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Beaker
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 09:33:35 pm »

Isn't the 25T the only one with the advanced FM?
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VH-Lucas
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 07:42:58 pm »

No, I think they applied it to the Su-25 as well.
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Lawndart
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2009, 04:38:01 am »

Naw, just the T-model.
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